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	<title>Comments on: Ultimate Bet Followup</title>
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	<link>http://www.natarem.com/2008/07/17/ultimate-bet-followup/</link>
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		<title>By: MW</title>
		<link>http://www.natarem.com/2008/07/17/ultimate-bet-followup/comment-page-1/#comment-7522</link>
		<dc:creator>MW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 06:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.natarem.com/?p=611#comment-7522</guid>
		<description>It would be quite interesting if an AG&#039;s office, or the DOJ, decided to press charges against him and subpoena&#039;d his bank records.  The only problem would be if he was using offshore accounts, which ignore U.S. law enforcement.  The key to the truth actually coming out lies at the feet of UltimateBet.  They are the only ones with records of where money was sent from their site via withdrawals by the players with superuser accounts.  Obviously, they had to send the money, all of which was stolen from the poker playing public, to someone&#039;s account.  If UB wants to prove that they are not culpable, they will provide such information to authorities when it is requested, rather than carefully releasing minimal amounts of information and forcing others to just draw conclusions.  Beyond any legal repurcussions, simply exposing each and every cheater, the amounts they stole, how they did it, and all other relevant details to the court of public opinion would suffice.  Such cheaters have their reputation tarnished forever, and this may be a bigger blow than any criminal charges could ever bring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be quite interesting if an AG&#8217;s office, or the DOJ, decided to press charges against him and subpoena&#8217;d his bank records.  The only problem would be if he was using offshore accounts, which ignore U.S. law enforcement.  The key to the truth actually coming out lies at the feet of UltimateBet.  They are the only ones with records of where money was sent from their site via withdrawals by the players with superuser accounts.  Obviously, they had to send the money, all of which was stolen from the poker playing public, to someone&#8217;s account.  If UB wants to prove that they are not culpable, they will provide such information to authorities when it is requested, rather than carefully releasing minimal amounts of information and forcing others to just draw conclusions.  Beyond any legal repurcussions, simply exposing each and every cheater, the amounts they stole, how they did it, and all other relevant details to the court of public opinion would suffice.  Such cheaters have their reputation tarnished forever, and this may be a bigger blow than any criminal charges could ever bring.</p>
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		<title>By: Pud's Poker</title>
		<link>http://www.natarem.com/2008/07/17/ultimate-bet-followup/comment-page-1/#comment-7380</link>
		<dc:creator>Pud's Poker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.natarem.com/?p=611#comment-7380</guid>
		<description>Good work as always Nat.

One thing I can&#039;t believe is that the new UB management knew nothing of this. Surely if your are investing millions of dollars in software you&#039;d have someone go through it with a fine toothed comb before commiting any funds. Would you buy a house without a survey first or a car without a test drive? No didn&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good work as always Nat.</p>
<p>One thing I can&#8217;t believe is that the new UB management knew nothing of this. Surely if your are investing millions of dollars in software you&#8217;d have someone go through it with a fine toothed comb before commiting any funds. Would you buy a house without a survey first or a car without a test drive? No didn&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: PB</title>
		<link>http://www.natarem.com/2008/07/17/ultimate-bet-followup/comment-page-1/#comment-7345</link>
		<dc:creator>PB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.natarem.com/?p=611#comment-7345</guid>
		<description>Hi Nat -

I&#039;m a poker player too, along with a 2+2 user, and I have been following the Ultimate Bet issue since you and Steven Ware brought it to our attention.

The evidence you provided allowed us to make conclusions for ourselves.  2+2 players, as well as good players in general, tend to follow inductive reasoning pretty well.  Cheating was going on.  Who was responsible?  The support is pretty clear in my mind.  Note, you never said that Russ was the *guy*...the other users came up with those conclusions because the support for it is very clear.

I think Russ is still culpable and there is nothing that would sway me otherwise.  If I&#039;m wrong, I don&#039;t care.  He has done *nothing* to help his cause before, during, or after.  I followed those threads carefully, read what was said and implied, and surmised that desperate people will do and say desperate things (&quot;tempt not a desperate man&quot; is a favorite quote of mine from Shakespeare) when caught to avoid punishment.

Thanks for writing.  I understand everyone&#039;s predicaments, but Mr. Hamilton had a chance to make things right and he didn&#039;t.  Unfortunately the new ownership of UB will have suffer for it (and it&#039;s a place I&#039;ll never play).

Good luck to you.

PB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nat -</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a poker player too, along with a 2+2 user, and I have been following the Ultimate Bet issue since you and Steven Ware brought it to our attention.</p>
<p>The evidence you provided allowed us to make conclusions for ourselves.  2+2 players, as well as good players in general, tend to follow inductive reasoning pretty well.  Cheating was going on.  Who was responsible?  The support is pretty clear in my mind.  Note, you never said that Russ was the *guy*&#8230;the other users came up with those conclusions because the support for it is very clear.</p>
<p>I think Russ is still culpable and there is nothing that would sway me otherwise.  If I&#8217;m wrong, I don&#8217;t care.  He has done *nothing* to help his cause before, during, or after.  I followed those threads carefully, read what was said and implied, and surmised that desperate people will do and say desperate things (&#8220;tempt not a desperate man&#8221; is a favorite quote of mine from Shakespeare) when caught to avoid punishment.</p>
<p>Thanks for writing.  I understand everyone&#8217;s predicaments, but Mr. Hamilton had a chance to make things right and he didn&#8217;t.  Unfortunately the new ownership of UB will have suffer for it (and it&#8217;s a place I&#8217;ll never play).</p>
<p>Good luck to you.</p>
<p>PB</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Lewis</title>
		<link>http://www.natarem.com/2008/07/17/ultimate-bet-followup/comment-page-1/#comment-7344</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.natarem.com/?p=611#comment-7344</guid>
		<description>Hi Nat,

I just wanted to thank-you for all the work you are doing on behalf of the poker community. I&#039;ve been reading your blog since the AP scandal came to light, along with related posts on 2 plus 2 and pocket fives. You seem like a very brave, honest and reasonable person. I would definitely be proud to have you as a friend. :-)

I sometimes wonder if you would prefer not to be tangled up in all of this. It almost seems like you were fated to solve the AP and UB mysteries, like some sort of reluctant Sherlock Holmes. 

It seems like there are still many questions to be answered, loose ends to be tied up etc. Is there any connection between the Big Chief, Scott Tom, and Russ Hamilton? Are they all a part of some organised crime syndicate working for Mr. Big ?

Do you think that anyone will ever be prosecuted in the U.S. for these crimes? It surprises me that the Feds took the Neteller guys in for questioning along with some other poker site execs but they seem disinterested in this case. With so much money involved, the authorities must be monitoring the situation, watching for money laundering and connections to known criminals.

Please take care of yourself Nat.

All the best, Levi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nat,</p>
<p>I just wanted to thank-you for all the work you are doing on behalf of the poker community. I&#8217;ve been reading your blog since the AP scandal came to light, along with related posts on 2 plus 2 and pocket fives. You seem like a very brave, honest and reasonable person. I would definitely be proud to have you as a friend. <img src='http://www.natarem.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I sometimes wonder if you would prefer not to be tangled up in all of this. It almost seems like you were fated to solve the AP and UB mysteries, like some sort of reluctant Sherlock Holmes. </p>
<p>It seems like there are still many questions to be answered, loose ends to be tied up etc. Is there any connection between the Big Chief, Scott Tom, and Russ Hamilton? Are they all a part of some organised crime syndicate working for Mr. Big ?</p>
<p>Do you think that anyone will ever be prosecuted in the U.S. for these crimes? It surprises me that the Feds took the Neteller guys in for questioning along with some other poker site execs but they seem disinterested in this case. With so much money involved, the authorities must be monitoring the situation, watching for money laundering and connections to known criminals.</p>
<p>Please take care of yourself Nat.</p>
<p>All the best, Levi</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.natarem.com/2008/07/17/ultimate-bet-followup/comment-page-1/#comment-7342</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 05:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.natarem.com/?p=611#comment-7342</guid>
		<description>Nice post. Thanks for your hard work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. Thanks for your hard work.</p>
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