Comments on: Hierarchy of Cheating in Poker

By: Mitchell

Mitchell — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:58:23 +0000

Nice article.

Of course there is also collusion between players to worry about–especially in cash games.

And, who knows, it’s also possible–dare I mention this-that one or more of the poker sites are not running an honest game. It is software and it can be adjusted. For example, making sure that more big hands are dealt so players get more involved in pots and their rake is bigger.

By: marsdeals

marsdeals — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:12:17 +0000

Nice thoughts on the whole cheating topic. Where would you place pokerbots in this arguement? I submitted your story at RoundersBuzz.com. You can vote it up under upcoming stories.

By: Nat

Nat — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:10:37 +0000

Stars’ lack of caring about one player to an account is another area where it’s a very gray line to cross and get into multi-accounting. I mean, what if 10 people in the PCA lobby enter a tournament and by the end all 9 busted people are helping the one guy who made the final table? Is the only difference between than and account buying that the advisers don’t have the final say and they don’t have a financial interest? I don’t see the effective change on gameplay being all that different either way. The player will probably listen to a bunch of really good players saying to make X move.

So I guess my answer is that, in a cash game at high stakes, people know to expect what you’re describing, so it isn’t really as bad. It’s a whole different world and I think almost everyone knows that there are people ghosting, taking pieces, chopping up action, etc. The information about that is all over the place.

But I think my answer to what I described in the first paragraph of this comment is probably around #4. It isn’t as bad as something with the potential for collusion, but I definitely think that 10 (or more in some cases) good tournament players closing out a Sunday Million win at the PCA is an unfair advantage in a number of ways.

By: zimba

zimba — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:39:53 +0000

Another area of cheating to consider is multiple players playing one account. I have witnessed many high stakes players in the same room making group decisions based off their collective knowledge of players and situations. Ghosting is a similar situation where a better player is advising by IM or phone how a lesser player should play. Coaching and lessons are another lesser situation that might be questionable. Where do you feel these situations fit in to your hierarchy?

By: TacoTuesday

TacoTuesday — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:21:25 +0000

The whole thing has just gone completely retardo. It’s like people have just run out of interesting things to care about, and now we have a 100+ page thread on P5s about a guy playing his wife’s account in a $5 tournament. His Stars account is “Sealed Deck” and his wife’s account is “Soiled Deck.” I’m sure $5 players on Stars are at his table thinking, “Man, if I were up against ‘Sealed Deck’ I’d play this one way, but against ‘Soiled Deck’ I really have to change my strategy.” It’s just completely irrational thought that leads people to believe that this particular case is worthy of this much attention.

Progression of thought is just astounding on this issue, and a number of forum posters have demonstrated a complete lack of ability to evaluate things on a case-by-case basis. As stated in this blog entry, not everything that happens is the same. Not everyone who violates the rules of an online poker site has the same intention, and not every offense has the same potential consequences.

What are the potential consequences of the actions of JJProdigy or other chronic cheaters? They’re huge for online poker, especially when all added together. These people routinely trick people out of huge amounts of money by swapping accounts late in tournaments, “ghosting” players to get them to play differently than they would on their own, playing several accounts in the same tournament, etc. These guys narrow the opportunity for other people to win tournaments, thereby hurting everyone who has any interest in online poker. Moreover, they have freaked out the poker community so much that now everytime some unknown wins big, a few dozen people come out accusing them of being a multi-accounter. This environment is completely unacceptable, and it’s been caused by people like JJProdigy, Imper1um, redsoxsox, and others who are so self-interested and so lacking in long term vision and maturity that they don’t even try to help preserve the industry that’s feeding money into their bank accounts.

This same environment is what causes the vilification of Seal, who seems to me like the type of guy who wouldn’t steal a stick of gum. Seal is a distraction; he’s not the problem. The real cheaters are loving the current environment. Everyone is so distracted and so anxious to hop on the next witch hunt that they aren’t paying attention to what’s actually going on. The real cheaters are calculating everything, flying under the radar. They aren’t getting caught by the community, because as soon as something obvious that’s a little bit bad gets out there, that little thing becomes everyone’s focus.

Wake up, everyone.